On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:48 PM, Silver Eagle wrote:

I think it is a little unreasonable to expect every finder from out of town
to buy a map of the area just
for your box. If the place really is important enough for you to place a box
there, why not give a little help finding it, then make the clues to the box
tricky. I would much prefer the challenge of finding the box on foot rather
then the park by car.
______________

Oh my - do I ever agree with you!

I thoroughly enjoy the planning part of a boxing trip - laying out maps and
looking through clues to find boxes on maps, to try to group them and
arrange my route to be most efficient while I'm in the car. Doing my
research to make sure there isn't something in the clues I need to be
familiar with before I go. One of the biggest reasons I do all that work is
to minimize the time I spend in the car. It is wayyy frustrating to get
where I'm going and find that the map wasn't quite right and I don't have
any help from the planter.

I remember one particular situation where I was looking for a park tucked
into a fairly urban area. It was nowhere on the local map and the planter
was kind enough to get me to the right city, but beyond that - nothing. I
managed to narrow down the location by stopping several times and asking for
directions, but even after an hour of driving around the area, I finally
gave up because I simply couldn't find the park - never got a shot at the
box! I emailed the planter and asked him pretty please for a little help
with the location and he kindly emailed me the cross-streets and the next
time I visited his city I was able to find the box.

My idea of a good day boxing is NOT driving around in my car - it's putting
one foot in front of the other on the trail! And it's a lot less
frustrating to look and not find than it is to not even get to look.


Barefoot Lucy
"It's not about footwear, it's about philosophy"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I agree that, all things being equal, driving around is not how I prefer to spend my limited boxing time, particularly in suburban traffic jams.

However, I disagree strongly that the necessary conclusion to draw from that is to use clues to lead people by the nose to parks. Plotting out where the boxes are and organizing the clues by their position on the atlas is part of the game for me, and far more enjoyable than, for example, distinguishing one random rock in a boulder field from another (and with less potential harm to critters from checking the wrong hidey holes). With proper prior preparation, it can be done weeks or months before you even leave the house.
I think many letterboxers tend to be map people. Even if people don't want to buy maps, though, the internet is a very powerful tool.
Even aside from that, not every box is for everybody. If you suspect you won't be able to locate a starting point for something and don't want to waste gas, there's nothing wrong with deciding to leave it on the table for another day.



Barefoot Lucy wrote:
On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:48 PM, Silver Eagle wrote:

I think it is a little unreasonable to expect every finder from out of town
to buy a map of the area just
for your box. If the place really is important enough for you to place a box
there, why not give a little help finding it, then make the clues to the box
tricky. I would much prefer the challenge of finding the box on foot rather
then the park by car.
______________

Oh my - do I ever agree with you!

I thoroughly enjoy the planning part of a boxing trip - laying out maps and
looking through clues to find boxes on maps, to try to group them and
arrange my route to be most efficient while I'm in the car. Doing my
research to make sure there isn't something in the clues I need to be
familiar with before I go. One of the biggest reasons I do all that work is
to minimize the time I spend in the car. It is wayyy frustrating to get
where I'm going and find that the map wasn't quite right and I don't have
any help from the planter.

I remember one particular situation where I was looking for a park tucked
into a fairly urban area. It was nowhere on the local map and the planter
was kind enough to get me to the right city, but beyond that - nothing. I
managed to narrow down the location by stopping several times and asking for
directions, but even after an hour of driving around the area, I finally
gave up because I simply couldn't find the park - never got a shot at the
box! I emailed the planter and asked him pretty please for a little help
with the location and he kindly emailed me the cross-streets and the next
time I visited his city I was able to find the box.

My idea of a good day boxing is NOT driving around in my car - it's putting
one foot in front of the other on the trail! And it's a lot less
frustrating to look and not find than it is to not even get to look.

Barefoot Lucy
"It's not about footwear, it's about philosophy"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Well here is a topic that I'm sure will cause a debate

Yep, here it comes :) (The Pennsylvania Clinton/Obama debate
is really lame (so far, no substance), so why not?).

> I would submit that not giving any driving directions is
> just being lazy.

I would disagree. I would counter that it is a philosophical
or artistic decision, not laziness. I don't thing pejorative
language describes the effort I personally put into clues that
do not contain straightforward directions. That said, if they,
or I, are being lazy, their clue, their prerogative.

With that out of the way, I would counter with "directions
from where", as if "where" is a place the seeker is
axiomatically assumed to know how to get to without research
(otherwise it just foists the problem to finding "where", so
you are being lazy by not telling them how to get to "where"
from their house, and what if such information is not available
on the Internet, or there are multiple routes or they change),
but that practical/logical argument isn't all that interesting
either, despite it, IMHO, being total justification in simply
listing the name of the park if that is the style of clue
you are writing.

Anyway, my take is that it is axiomatic that the planter is
always right. Those who disagree are free to ignore a
particular clue at any point from first finding it 'til
they open the tupperware. It is always up to the seeker
to research the area because the area changes while the
text is static (at least with the simulated treasure hunting
attitude), even when driving directions are involved. I
think we all live happily ever after with that attitude,
but we don't, I get alot of grief for it (which I happily
ignore :-)).

The reason is simple. A clue that some, or most, or in fact
even all don't like is still better than no clue. Eventually
someone may like it. And, if it is so different that no one
else likes it at the time, it may bring on someone new with
new attitudes. Just like the first mystery box. These
attitudes are good and healthy, the promote diversity and
variety. I'd be bored stiff if every clue contained
straightforward driving directions, and everyone in the hobby
craved such clues.

My personal philosophy is that I enjoy clues that describe
_locations_, not _directions_. Its _all_ about the route
and route discovery, whether that be during a mental phase,
physical phase, or combination of the two.

Therefore, I ignore clues with straightforward driving
directions, in keeping with the attitudes elsewhere in this
note. So, if they all had them, I'd be out of luck.
So it goes back to to each is own, and ignore that which
you do not like, but don't assert someone is being "lazy"
for not providing something you like. What if I said people
who fail to provide clues that are more complex than those
with straightforward driving directions are being lazy for
not taking the time to come up with more complex clues? I
don't hold that attitude, but I hope it makes the point.

As always, in good fun, and done without mentioning
"semiotics". :-)

Cheers
Randy

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 7:41 PM, Otis' Friends
wrote:

If you suspect you won't be able to locate a starting point for something
and don't want to waste gas, there's nothing wrong with deciding to leave it
on the table for another day.
************************
That's a fine thought - if it works out that way - but I'm sure I'm not the
only one who has started out thinking it would be straightforward, or that I
had figured it out in advance (and believe me, I do a mountain of advance
planning before I set out to a new city to hunt), and it was just a matter
of getting there, and then deciding after an hour or so of trying to nail
down the location that it wasn't worth it. I tend to be pretty
philosophical about not finding a box if I actually get to look for it, but
it is awfully frustrating not to even be able to put myself into a position
to get out and go look.

Of course, as I think about the instances when I've run into such a
difficulty, I've also later come to the conclusion that the planter is
sloppy in their clue-writing all the way around. Norths called souths, pine
trees called oaks, lefts called rights. And when I run into that sort of
thing, I forego their boxes anymore. They can plant 'em all they like, but
I'm going to leave them to other boxers to find. No hard feelings, but I
find no enjoyment in figuring out whether the clue is accurate or not.

I think a good placer thinks a box through from start to finish - 1) what do
I hope to get from planting this box? 2) what do I hope to convey to the
finder? 3) how am I going to get the finder to the box? 4) how can I
accurately (not necessarily plainly) convey directions to the finder? 5)
what do I want the finder to get from finding my box (i.e. "that was fun!"
or "cool place" or "I wouldn't have thought of THAT") Once a placer
understands their purpose in creating the box, they can write better clues
AND the thought they put into it comes through to a good finder. There
might be a purpose in not putting the starting location, but they're going
to find a way to get that information across to the finder without stating
it. But if there isn't a reason to exclude such information, why not
include it for the sake of putting the finder there more readily so they can
enjoy the real work of finding your box?

Gotta go with Randy - this is definitely a more interesting debate than
anything I've seen this political season!

--
Barefoot Lucy
"It's not about footwear, it's about philosophy"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hmmm, I would disagree that not giving driving directions is lazy. First of all, I am assuming we are talking about non-mystery boxes here as it is quite common for a mystery box to leave the starting point to reasearch. But even with traditionally clued boxes, for me it largely depends on the location. I frequently do not give directions to the park, especially if it is something that is easily available via a map or basic-level research on the Internet (i.e. state and county parks). If there is more than one entrance or parking area, I generally will give some bit of information at the beginning of the clue that would identify a street name, a landmark or a trail name. It is true that this may require a person to think on their feet and do a little deductive reasoning when they get to the park (i.e. stop at the signboard and look at the park map), but in my opinion, figuring out where one needs to go is part of the puzzle of locating a box. On the other hand, if the place is more obscure or only known to locals, I may give driving directions, either comprehensive or in bits and pieces, so the person would be able to figure it out before they set out and not be forced to drive blindly around the city looking for a sign or person who knows. But even then, it is not always a given, at least not rote directions.

I think to what degree one provides driving directions is as subjective as whether or not to give step-by-step trail directions in a clue or intentionally leave it somewhat vague so the seeker has to think or try various options. With the availability of mapping services on the Internet, it does not necessarily require one to purchase a map for every location they will go to, just to do a little homework.

The only part of the clue I try to be very specific on is the hiding spot itself -- if you have done the research and the puzzling to figure out where to go and how to get to the box, knowing right where to look will be pretty straightforward. This is not so much in regard for the seeker as it is in regard for the environment. I have seen too many letterbox locations that were completely torn apart and trashed because the clues where quite non-descript as to the hiding spot and people just started turning over every rock and downed tree limb.

I have done many boxes in other cities & states that did not provide driving directions, or even a park name in some cases. But most of them I was able to pinpoint the place (and print out maps) using Internet resources before I went, often down to the exact place I should park. If I were an out-of-towner and a box was too vague in this regard, I would just look for a different box. To be honest, I often do not even use the driving directions in a clue even when they are provided, rather prefer to map it out myself to obtain a comfort level of the area I am going to.

SpringChick



----- Original Message -----
From: Silver Eagle
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 6:48 PM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Driving Directions


Well here is a topic that I'm sure will cause a debate, kind of like
when we discussed clever clues vs. bad clues. I agree that you don't
have to hold a finder's hand, but I would submit that not giving any
driving directions is just being lazy. What if directions can't be
found on the Internet, or the park has more than one entrance. Then
the finder spends more time driving around than enjoying the place
that you wanted them to visit. I think it is a little unreasonable
to expect every finder from out of town to buy a map of the area just
for your box.
.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have to agree with the others who say that this is not laziness but a clue technique and one that we employ. Sue & I use minimalistic clues at times to make the box more challenging to find, including how to get to the box. If these boxes make it difficult for you to find, rest assured that there are tons of boxes that have clues and directions that lead you right to the box.

Like my letterboxing onion analogy - not all boxes are for all people. Pick those boxes that you like and ignore those that you don't but please don't call another letterboxer lazy when they don't include directions to the location. That might just be there personal clue technique.

Different strokes for different folks.

Mark

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "SpringChick"
Hmmm, I would disagree that not giving driving directions is lazy. SpringChick.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ok, perhaps lazy was too strong a word, but it sure feels that way
after you have been driving around for over an hour looking for a
place that could have been found easily if the placer had just given
an address or cross streets nearby. I realize that some placers
prefer to make the clues cryptic and it is up to the finder to figure
them out or choose to ignore, but it's not always easy to know when
this is the case. With a mystery box, you expect to do some work,
but with a regular box where the place is named and no other part of
the clue is cryptic, you tend to think the place will be easy to
find, so you decide to try it, even though you can't find much
information on its location. Just like clever clues vs. vague clues,
the difference is subtle, but dramatic.

For the record, I like both types of clues; those that give
directions and those that describe locations that I can figure out.
I can understand why you prefer complex clues, but am surprised you
would automatically ignore clues that give straightforward driving
directions. What if the clues were very complex, but driving
directions were also included? Wouldn't it make more sense to just
ignore the driving directions and figure it out yourself? In fact,
all clues could be considered complex if you just ignore the parts
you don't want to know. Of course, this begs the question "How much
is too much?" before you will ignore a set of clues. Taking your
analogy to the nth degree, I suspect the only box worthy of your
attention would be one that gives no specific information at all.
So, in this spirit, I humbly submit a set of clues that I hope will
spark your interest :)

LB Name: ?
Placed By: ?
State: One of 50
County: One of many
Nearest City: One of several
Clues: Find the park, walk down a trail and look behind a tree.

Enjoy!
Silver Eagle

> My personal philosophy is that I enjoy clues that describe
> _locations_, not _directions_. Its _all_ about the route
> and route discovery, whether that be during a mental phase,
> physical phase, or combination of the two.
>
> Therefore, I ignore clues with straightforward driving
> directions, in keeping with the attitudes elsewhere in this
> note. So, if they all had them, I'd be out of luck.
> So it goes back to to each is own, and ignore that which
> you do not like, but don't assert someone is being "lazy"
> for not providing something you like. What if I said people
> who fail to provide clues that are more complex than those
> with straightforward driving directions are being lazy for
> not taking the time to come up with more complex clues? I
> don't hold that attitude, but I hope it makes the point.
>
> As always, in good fun, and done without mentioning
> "semiotics". :-)
>
> Cheers
> Randy
>

You can't assume every planter uses a clue technique, and I think that's
where the rub lies where is omitting directions clever and when is it
lazy? What I hope this discussion points up for placers is the need for
forward-thinking, deliberate clue writing, as opposed to tossing clues down
on paper like they are nothing more than a grocery list.



I have a box that I placed in a park that is literally 10' x 15'. It is
located behind a very popular homegrown store, but virtually no one knows it
is there. I'll bet if you asked 50 locals where it is, they would tell you
there is no such place in our town. You might be able to ask another 50 and
find one person who has actually noticed it, and ask another 50 and find
someone who can tell you precisely where it is. But I'm betting that of
those 150, a good 20 will try their best to help you but will probably wind
up sending you to one cemetery or another. It isn't google-able. It isn't
listed on any websites. There's no reference to it on the city's website
(it's a private park) and the chamber of commerce has no idea it exists.



I never mentioned the park's name in the clue, but I make a veiled reference
to the nearby store and locals will have that much figured out before they
finish reading the clue and it's enough that out-of-towners can do a little
noodling to figure it out, and if they can't, I invite them to write me for
an extra out-of-towner's clue. Most everybody who goes looking for it finds
it, if not the first time then usually on the second or third time. And
they get that sense of satisfaction we all get when we work hard to
accomplish something and succeed.



If I had simply said "Go to ___________ Park", it would have sounded pretty
straightforward, and if it were me trying to find it, I would say to myself
"Well I've done a little research and that park isn't listed on any websites
and I can't google it and it isn't on any of the maps I've looked at, but
that's a small town and surely I can ask around and find the place". And
that's what I would do, thinking it would be kind of cool anyway to hang out
and meet and talk to a few locals and get a feel for the real town. They
would try to help me, but they would run me all over town and after a couple
hours (because once I spend a little time trying, it's hard to walk away) of
blind searching, I would give up, very frustrated. Is that really artful
clue-writing, when the finder has to rely heavily on good fortune to
eventually stumble across either the park or the 1/150 person who knows
where it is?



In my opinion, a good planter puts a lot of diligence into every word of a
clue, especially if their intent is to take a minimalist approach. There
should be nothing haphazard, but it should be solvable with the words in the
clue itself AND some research AND a little brainwork thrown in. But I
suppose there might be some planters who disagree, that boxes that rely on
luck to find even the starting point are good. I'll leave that luck layer
of the onion on the cutting board I'm not much of a gambler and probably
never will be. I prefer the use of resources like maps and research tools
and my own brainpower (however limited it may be on a day-to-day basis!) in
letterboxing!



On 4/17/08, mjpepe1@comcast.net wrote:
>
> I have to agree with the others who say that this is not laziness but a
> clue technique and one that we employ. Sue & I use minimalistic clues at
> times to make the box more challenging to find, including how to get to the
> box. If these boxes make it difficult for you to find, rest assured that
> there are tons of boxes that have clues and directions that lead you right
> to the box.
>
> Like my letterboxing onion analogy - not all boxes are for all people.
> Pick those boxes that you like and ignore those that you don't but please
> don't call another letterboxer lazy when they don't include directions to
> the location. That might just be there personal clue technique.
>
> Different strokes for different folks.
>
> Mark
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "SpringChick" >
> Hmmm, I would disagree that not giving driving directions is lazy.
> SpringChick.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--
Barefoot Lucy
"It's not about footwear, it's about philosophy"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We don't use driving directions, but awhile back we left a trail of
breadcrumbs from the starting point to the letterbox we planted.
Unfortunately we tried to check on it for maintenance a month after it
was planted but we couldn't find it. I tried to contact the placer for
some hints but we didn't respond.

I'm considering using a long length of string, does anyone know if that
will work?

Don, still wondering the mysteries of man.

I'm thinking string would deterioriate to rapidly, but what about that thick
yellow nylon rope?




On 4/17/08, gwendontoo wrote:
>
> We don't use driving directions, but awhile back we left a trail of
> breadcrumbs from the starting point to the letterbox we planted.
> Unfortunately we tried to check on it for maintenance a month after it
> was planted but we couldn't find it. I tried to contact the placer for
> some hints but we didn't respond.
>
> I'm considering using a long length of string, does anyone know if that
> will work?
>
> Don, still wondering the mysteries of man.
>
>
>



--
Barefoot Lucy
"It's not about footwear, it's about philosophy"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Or maybe yellow crime scene tape - wouldn't that be more appropriate for you, DJ????


-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Barefoot Lucy"
I'm thinking string would deterioriate to rapidly, but what about that thick
yellow nylon rope?

On 4/17/08, gwendontoo wrote:
>
> We don't use driving directions, but awhile back we left a trail of
> breadcrumbs from the starting point to the letterbox we planted.
> Unfortunately we tried to check on it for maintenance a month after it
> was planted but we couldn't find it. I tried to contact the placer for
> some hints but we didn't respond.
>
> I'm considering using a long length of string, does anyone know if that
> will work?
>
> Don, still wondering the mysteries of man.
>
>
>

--
Barefoot Lucy
"It's not about footwear, it's about philosophy"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I really like the rope or crime tape ideas, but will probably just
use some leftover spray paint making arrows along the way.

Don



--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, mjpepe1@... wrote:
>
> Or maybe yellow crime scene tape - wouldn't that be more
appropriate for you, DJ????
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Barefoot Lucy"
> I'm thinking string would deterioriate to rapidly, but what about
that thick
> yellow nylon rope?
>
> On 4/17/08, gwendontoo wrote:
> >
> > We don't use driving directions, but awhile back we left a trail
of
> > breadcrumbs from the starting point to the letterbox we planted.
> > Unfortunately we tried to check on it for maintenance a month
after it
> > was planted but we couldn't find it. I tried to contact the
placer for
> > some hints but we didn't respond.
> >
> > I'm considering using a long length of string, does anyone know
if that
> > will work?
> >
> > Don, still wondering the mysteries of man.
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Barefoot Lucy
> "It's not about footwear, it's about philosophy"
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I've planted boxes with mostly straightforward directions to the
landmark, or even given two cross streets as a starting point, and
STILL I've had people email me saying things like "I parked in the lot
but couldn't find the first landmark" or "You spelled the cross street
wrong and I couldn't find where to go". Nevermind the fact that the
aforementioned landmark is spray painted yellow and hasn't moved in
years, or that at the cross street intersection I copied the street
name down from the street sign on the sign post.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't help it if they're not
bright enough to figure out what to do next...

FdL


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Silver Eagle" wrote:
>
> Well here is a topic that I'm sure will cause a debate, kind of like
> when we discussed clever clues vs. bad clues. I agree that you don't
> have to hold a finder's hand, but I would submit that not giving any
> driving directions is just being lazy. What if directions can't be
> found on the Internet, or the park has more than one entrance. Then
> the finder spends more time driving around than enjoying the place
> that you wanted them to visit. I think it is a little unreasonable
> to expect every finder from out of town to buy a map of the area just
> for your box. If the place really is important enough for you to
> place a box there, why not give a little help finding it, then make
> the clues to the box tricky. I would much prefer the challenge of
> finding the box on foot rather then the park by car.
>
> Silver Eagle
>
> > My question is, why would I plant a letterbox that caters to the
> > finder? I plant boxes because I enjoy the subject, or the
> location, or
> > something about it is important to me. I don't care if you have to
> go
> > out of your way to find the box, plan out a route, or any of that.
> I
> > used to provide driving directions but have in time decided that,
> you
> > know what, you are searching for the box, so you should really have
> to
> > search for the box, and if that means pulling out a map to find the
> park
> > the box is in, then so be it. Why should I hold your hand to
> direct you
> > to the park, to plan how to get there, or anything like that?
> People
> > should learn to use their brains and get out there and figure these
> > things out on their own.
> >
> > --
> > Nathan Brown
> >
> > AKA Cyclonic
> > Penncoasters.com
> >
> > The Insensitivity rolls on...
> >
> > Friends don't let friends drink Starbucks!
> >
> > McCarthy was RIGHT!
> >
>

I once read (probably in the National Enquirer) that the smarter a person
is, the easier it is for them to get lost. The smarter folks supposedly
have little to no sense of direction and how they've travelled.

If that's true, then I can beat Einstein's IQ by about 329 points, so I'm
figuring it can't be true........

But what I DO use and it works by golly, are marbles. At each
fork/intersection in the trail where Caveman & I know we might have a
disagreement on the direction we came from -- he's not nearly as smart as I
am so he tends to not get lost so easily :-) -- we put a marble on the side
of the trail a foot or so down the trail. Caveman thought maybe orange
spray paint on the side of trees would be a whole lot easier but I told him
that was the lazy man's way. Marbles at least make him bend. But he was
smarter than me there -- he just drops 'em on the side of the trail.

Unfortunately, being as how we pick up the marbles on the return trip, it's
only a one-shot guidance system. :-) And that's why sometimes when I go
out to do maintenance, it takes me an hour with the maps to remember just
what I did the previous time out.

As regards driving directions to the park/preserve/etc, however, I guess
I'll just say all my boxes are mystery boxes then and make it easier on
folks' blood pressure. Because there are very few boxes where I give out
much of ANYthing in the way of driving directions. Has absolutely nothing
to do with laziness. That's how I like to play da game. My clues tend to be
very precise. They're just not always easy to figure out. And they're
sometimes a little scarce in spots. But what's there does the trick just
the way I want it to.

And since it's been nearly an hour since my mid-afternoon nap ended, it's
time for my early-evening nap.

Hope everyone got out & walked yesterday. Yesterday was supposedly National
Begin Walking Day. Did 6.0 miles in 60 minutes. Am gettin' old. But a
blessing about gettin' old is that, because I'm gettin' old, I keep
forgettin' I'm gettin' old.

~~ Mosey ~~
http://moseyingalong.blogspot.com

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of gwendontoo
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 11:02 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Driving Directions


We don't use driving directions, but awhile back we left a trail of
breadcrumbs from the starting point to the letterbox we planted.
Unfortunately we tried to check on it for maintenance a month after it
was planted but we couldn't find it. I tried to contact the placer for
some hints but we didn't respond.

I'm considering using a long length of string, does anyone know if that
will work?

Don, still wondering the mysteries of man.

> I think that's where the rub lies where is omitting directions
> clever and when is it lazy?

We don't know. We don't care. Their clue, their life, their time,
their prerogative. Who am I to judge whether they are clever or lazy?

Perhaps they intended to, but forgot. Now I have to judge whether
they are clever, lazy, or forgetful? No thanks. A clue is a collection
of symbols that describe a location. The writer is long gone, probably
busy eating Don's bread crumbs. Its all role of the reader stuff. As
the writer is long gone, it means nothing to the task at hand what he
was, including clever, lazy, forgetful, or a bread crumb glutton.

Me, I'd much prefer to judge the seekers. Lets call the ones who can't
find the box "stupid" ;-) [it is a joke]

Cheers
Randy

At 08:27 PM 4/17/2008, you wrote:
> Lets call the ones who can't
>find the box "stupid" ;-) [it is a joke]
>
>Cheers
>Randy

Or maybe "clueless"? ;-)

Gary

BAR-SF


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 8:27 PM, Randy Hall wrote:

Me, I'd much prefer to judge the seekers. Lets call the ones who can't
find the box "stupid" ;-) [it is a joke]

********************
Well heck, if we're gonna call someone "stupid" for not being able to find
the box, what does that make the person who can't even find the starting
point??? (<====also a joke)
--
Barefoot Lucy
"It's not about footwear, it's about philosophy"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hmmm...I got Dixie's "got clues?" t-shirt. Maybe I should put "clueless" on a shirt for my husband? I've made him a letterboxing kit, but he is definitely one of those who does not grasp the appeal of searching for tupperware in the woods!

:-)
Kit Kat

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Gary & Elizabeth Anderson
> At 08:27 PM 4/17/2008, you wrote:
> > Lets call the ones who can't
> >find the box "stupid" ;-) [it is a joke]
> >
> >Cheers
> >Randy
>
> Or maybe "clueless"? ;-)
>
> Gary
>
> BAR-SF
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "xxxxxxxx" wrote:

> we put a marble on the side of the trail a foot or so down the trail.
>
> ~~ Mosey ~~

Hey Now, Mosey!

I gotta ask...


wait for it...


wait for it...


Have you lost your marbles? :p

Connfederate

I knew if I waited long enough for "Mosey" to post a reply to this
Driving Directions thread that she would speak my mind for me - and
she did (see paragraph below).
Incidentally, I think only the people who actually hide boxes have a
right to comment on this thread. The rest of you are slackerds and
do not enjoy all that the hobby has to give.
Michel Labranche

Posted by: "xxxxxxxx" BrighidFarm@comcast.net brighidfarm
Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:02 pm (PDT)

snip snip.....
As regards driving directions to the park/preserve/etc, however, I guess
I'll just say all my boxes are mystery boxes then and make it easier on
folks' blood pressure. Because there are very few boxes where I give out
much of ANYthing in the way of driving directions. Has absolutely
nothing
to do with laziness. That's how I like to play da game. My clues tend
to be
very precise. They're just not always easy to figure out. And they're
sometimes a little scarce in spots. But what's there does the trick just
the way I want it to.
Mosey

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Except, I assume, we newbies who are still working out how to plant well by
finding (or not finding) a number of boxes first?

Weird Dana

--- Michael LaForest wrote:
...
> Incidentally, I think only the people who actually hide boxes have a
> right to comment on this thread. The rest of you are slackerds and
> do not enjoy all that the hobby has to give.
> Michel Labranche



____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Hi Michel,

It's Caveman. Donned your asbestos suit, eh? But you fergot a
word.........it's LAZY slackerds, LAZY slackerds. :-)

Got a bone to pick with youse. Mosey is now looking at rural real estate
close to a place called Pigeon Forge that's close to a place called
Gatlinburg that's close to some mountains she thinks are really cool thanks
to YOUR photos. Forgive the pun, but clue me in here. What are we talking
in the way of lions and tigers and bears? Not that Mosey doesn't have great
aim. But frankly I'm a City Caveman. I'd prefer not to live within range
of 4 legged things that have bigger teeth and claws than me. And of the few
bears I've had the misfortune to come close to, none of them yet has been
smaller than me. I don't care how cute those idiotic Charmin t.p.
commercials make them look, they can have the forest wilderness, I'll take
the city wilderness.

Write a great BIG note to yourself to send no more beautiful scenic wild
mountain photos.

Caveman

-----Original Message-----

Michael LaForest wrote:
...
> Incidentally, I think only the people who actually hide boxes have a
> right to comment on this thread. The rest of you are slackerds and
> do not enjoy all that the hobby has to give.
> Michel Labranche

Guess it's time for my two cents. I've only planted a few boxes, and I suspect my clues leave little to the imagination. Even to my one mystery box! And those who want to put forth more effort solving clues will probably skip my boxes...except that drive-bys do seem popular when you're on the way somewhere! I've only been at this for a year--I don't like to be frustrated when I'm out letterboxing, especially with my 9-year-old. So I expect my plants reflect that I don't want people who look for my boxes to be frustrated! I expect that as I'm around longer and start appreciating a challenge more, I'll learn to make my clues more challenging...well maybe a little!

:-)
Kit Kat

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "D. Huffman"
> Except, I assume, we newbies who are still working out how to plant well by
> finding (or not finding) a number of boxes first?
>
> Weird Dana
>
> --- Michael LaForest wrote:
> ...
> > Incidentally, I think only the people who actually hide boxes have a
> > right to comment on this thread. The rest of you are slackerds and
> > do not enjoy all that the hobby has to give.
> > Michel Labranche
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________________
> ____
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I hide letterboxes (and have been since 2002). I agree with Barefoot Lucy on this issue.

Lone R

Michael LaForest wrote: I knew if I waited long enough for "Mosey" to post a reply to this
Driving Directions thread that she would speak my mind for me - and
she did (see paragraph below).
Incidentally, I think only the people who actually hide boxes have a
right to comment on this thread. The rest of you are slackerds and
do not enjoy all that the hobby has to give.
Michel Labranche

Posted by: "xxxxxxxx" BrighidFarm@comcast.net brighidfarm
Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:02 pm (PDT)

snip snip.....
As regards driving directions to the park/preserve/etc, however, I guess
I'll just say all my boxes are mystery boxes then and make it easier on
folks' blood pressure. Because there are very few boxes where I give out
much of ANYthing in the way of driving directions. Has absolutely
nothing
to do with laziness. That's how I like to play da game. My clues tend
to be
very precise. They're just not always easy to figure out. And they're
sometimes a little scarce in spots. But what's there does the trick just
the way I want it to.
Mosey

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Those were lost long long ago in a galaxy far far away...........

Like the Cylons, however, there's always have a Resurrection ship standing
by.

~~ Mosey ~~

-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of connfederate
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 7:46 AM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Driving Directions


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "xxxxxxxx" wrote:

> we put a marble on the side of the trail a foot or so down the trail.
>
> ~~ Mosey ~~

Hey Now, Mosey!

I gotta ask...


wait for it...


wait for it...


Have you lost your marbles? :p

Connfederate

Ugggh, Cave guy,

I used to be a city fellow, but traded that in 45 years ago for Smoky
Mountain suburbia where gas is now only $3.31/gal. Real estate is
too high in Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg right now. What you want is
a house on Fort Loudoun Lake or on one of our many rivers, or
somewhere around Asheville, NC (western North Carolina). And say,
you drive in a big city, but are concerned about a bear attack?
Hahahahaha! I can "bearly" remember when someone was attacked by a
bear around here.

Only one person disagreed with me about carving stamps, so far.
Maybe all the lazy slackerds are again out hunting a box someone else
carved.
Ugg garumpf,
Michel


Re: Driving Directions
Posted by: "xxxxxxxx" BrighidFarm@comcast.net brighidfarm
Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:56 pm (PDT)

Hi Michel,

It's Caveman. Donned your asbestos suit, eh? But you fergot a
word.........it's LAZY slackerds, LAZY slackerds. :-)

Got a bone to pick with youse. Mosey is now looking at rural real estate
close to a place called Pigeon Forge that's close to a place called
Gatlinburg that's close to some mountains she thinks are really cool
thanks
to YOUR photos. Forgive the pun, but clue me in here. What are we
talking
in the way of lions and tigers and bears? Not that Mosey doesn't have
great
aim. But frankly I'm a City Caveman. I'd prefer not to live within range
of 4 legged things that have bigger teeth and claws than me. And of
the few
bears I've had the misfortune to come close to, none of them yet has
been
smaller than me. I don't care how cute those idiotic Charmin t.p.
commercials make them look, they can have the forest wilderness, I'll
take
the city wilderness.

Write a great BIG note to yourself to send no more beautiful scenic wild
mountain photos.

Caveman

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Maybe all the lazy slackerds are again out hunting a box someone else
> carved.

They might be. More likely on other fora, as this would have been a
certain flame war in days past. I was personally surprised the P/F
ratio thread did not recycle. The thread cycle seems to be about 6
months, and we recently went thru planters v finders again; I figured
we were to then recycle P/F ratio, but WDIK?

For my part, I think finders who never plant (newbies excluded, of,
course), should offer up a gratuity to the planters for providing for
their entertainment. If this doesn't get the messages flying and the
asbestos underwear donned, then we know the list is dead, and ready
to be decommissioned, which is a fine prospect in my book.

Cheers
Randy

Oh, I DO so wish Lady Prisspot would provide some guidance on this
topic.... Her missives were so entertaining!

Wisconsin Hiker

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Silver Eagle"
wrote:
>
> Well here is a topic that I'm sure will cause a debate, kind of
like when we discussed clever clues vs. bad clues. I agree that you
don't have to hold a finder's hand, but I would submit that not
giving any driving directions is just being lazy. What if directions
can't be found on the Internet, or the park has more than one
entrance. Then the finder spends more time driving around than
enjoying the place that you wanted them to visit. I think it is a
little unreasonable to expect every finder from out of town to buy a
map of the area just for your box. If the place really is important
enough for you to place a box there, why not give a little help
finding it, then make the clues to the box tricky. I would much
prefer the challenge of finding the box on foot rather then the park
by car.
>
> Silver Eagle
>
> > My question is, why would I plant a letterbox that caters to the
> > finder? I plant boxes because I enjoy the subject, or the
> location, or
> > something about it is important to me. I don't care if you have
to go out of your way to find the box, plan out a route, or any of
that.
> I used to provide driving directions but have in time decided
that, you know what, you are searching for the box, so you should
really have to
> > search for the box, and if that means pulling out a map to find
the park the box is in, then so be it. Why should I hold your hand
to > direct you to the park, to plan how to get there, or anything
like that? People should learn to use their brains and get out there
and figure these things out on their own.
> >
> > --
> > Nathan Brown
> >
> > AKA Cyclonic

I did hear several weeks ago that her Ladyship was on a whirlwind tour; visiting all of the crowned heads of Europe. But I might be mistaken,

Mark

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Wisconsin Hiker"
Oh, I DO so wish Lady Prisspot would provide some guidance on this
topic.... Her missives were so entertaining!

Wisconsin Hiker
.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sadly Lady Prisspot recently began attending nursing school and is
busier than a one-legged letterboxer.

However I, as an opinionated semi-ex-boxer inspired by a white
haired multi-talented crazy man with an arrow through his head, have
something to add to this discussion:

Be pompous, obese, and eat cactus
Be witty and happy and wise
Flip a coin about giving driving directions in letterboxing clues
Be obsequious purple and clairvoyant.

Tammy
ADG #1
Recently leery of curbs




--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Wisconsin Hiker"
wrote:
>
> Oh, I DO so wish Lady Prisspot would provide some guidance on this
> topic.... Her missives were so entertaining!
>
> Wisconsin Hiker
>